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70 Year-Old Stoned To Death Because The Bible Says To Stone Gays

by David Badash on March 18, 2011

in Bigotry Watch,News

Post image for 70 Year-Old Stoned To Death Because The Bible Says To Stone Gays

A 28 year-old Philadelphia-area man admitted he stoned to death a 70 year-old man because the Bible says to stone homosexuals. John Joe Thomas reportedly killed Murray Joseph Seidman, whom he knew, and told police, “I stoned Murray with a rock in a sock,” because he had read in the Bible that gays should be stoned.

According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, “The young man and Seidman were often seen together grocery shopping and going to church,” and “He then described how he placed batteries and rocks in a sock, and hit Seidman in the head at least 10 times.”

Think about this. Gays are being stoned to death in 21st century America. Actually, we don’t even know if the man who was stoned was gay, but his murderer thought he was.

This past Tuesday, Rev. Keith Ratliff Sr., a Baptist minister and president of the Iowa-Nebraska chapter of the NAACP, demanded the “gay community stop hijacking the civil rights movement.”

Ratliff called any parallel between the African-American civil rights movement and the gay civil rights movement an “insult.”

I’m pretty sure not being stoned to death falls into the civil right of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Americablog’s John Aravosis says, “The Bible is quite literally used to kill us,” and adds:

Every single bigot who quotes the Bible against gays is responsible for this man’s death.

And not to defend the killer, but he’s right. The Bible does says to kill gays. How Christians get away with selling the Bible with those quotes still inside is beyond me. Here are numerous versions of the Bible – note what the say about killing gays:

(The following is also via Aravosis at AmericaBlog)

New International Version (©1984)
“‘If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

New Living Translation (©2007)
“If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.

English Standard Version (©2001)
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act;they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
When a man has sexual intercourse with another man as with a woman, both men are doing something disgusting and must be put to death. They deserve to die.

King James Bible
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

American King James Version
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be on them.

American Standard Version
And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Bible in Basic English
And if a man has sex relations with a man, the two of them have done a disgusting thing: let them be put to death; their blood will be on them.

Douay-Rheims Bible
If any one lie with a man se with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them.

Darby Bible Translation
And if a man lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall certainly be put to death; their blood is upon them.

English Revised Version
And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Webster’s Bible Translation
If a man also shall lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

World English Bible
“‘If a man lies with a male, as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Young’s Literal Translation
And a man who lieth with a male as one lieth with a woman; abomination both of them have done; they are certainly put to death; their blood is on them.

I’m sorry, but the book is quite clear about the need to murder gay people. Why beat around the bush about it? Yes, I know the translation is wrong, but it’s the accepted translation in far too many mainstream versions of the Bible (I do love how bigoted Christians like to pretend that the Bible was written in English 2000 years ago, so the translation just can’t be wrong – even though English didn’t even exist back then.) And Christians do nothing about it, other than quote it against us in order to take away our civil rights.

Any questions?

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{ 70 comments }

American Elephant March 18, 2011 at 6:22 pm

I'm sorry, I'm gay and Christian, and this post is an ENORMOUS and indefensible stretch . You claim, "Think about this. Gays are being stoned to death in 21st century America." Broad-brush much?__This is one tragic incident, by a mentally imbalanced man. It is not "gays…being stoned" it was one man.

I was physically beaten by a gay man once. To use your logic, I could claim, "Gays in America are on a violent anti-Christian rampage".

This is also like Democrats irresponsible claims that right wingers were assasinating Democrats because one crazy guy who wasnt a right winger at all shot at Gabby Giffords.

Sorry, a very irresponsible and deeply incorrect post.

PS. You kinda miss the whole point of the New Testament and to ignore the New Testament is to ignore Christianity. If you are Talking about the first books of the Old Testament you are talking the Torah and teh Joos, but Im pretty sure they dont stone anyone to death anymore either.

Glad you filed this under bigotry watch, cus more than the acts of a mentally disturbed man, this column exposes a deep anti-religious bigotry on the part of the author.

MattAlgren March 18, 2011 at 8:25 pm

Not at all. I'm also gay, and also a Christian (Methodist, to be specific). This guy is the first HONEST Christian Fundamentalist American I've heard of lately. Do all Christians think gays should be stoned? Of course not. But Fundamentalists necessarily do, whether they say it in public or not. Their [flawed] view of the Bible demands it.

I've said it once and I'll say it again: If people are dead set on quoting [outdated, mistranslated, misappropriated, culturally irrelevant] scripture at me, then they should pick up a rock and GET. FUCKING. STARTED.

I'll even stand still.

Otherwise, they're just committing heresy through their inaction.

Newageluddite March 18, 2011 at 10:44 pm

If you are a Christian, you should know that the presence of Jesus, the Christ, brought forth the new covenant with God, which superseded the old covenant the Old Testament describes with the Jews. Most fundamentalists know that(I think); if they don't then they should remember the other prohibitions written in Leviticus.(I'm not talking about Westburo Baptist and their ilk. I'm talking about conservative Christians.)

MattAlgren March 18, 2011 at 10:56 pm

If we're going by a strict Fundamentalist reading, Jesus made it very clear that he didn't come to overthrow the Law. IOW, what was considered right (or wrong) according to the mosaic laws is still right (or wrong).

They're playing pick-and-choose on which texts are to be ignored and which are to be adhered to, and that's dirty pool. If their view is that gay sex is considered an abomination, the penalty remains intact.

I hope it's obvious that this is not my view, but theirs. I'm only calling for internal consistency.

ByAndForThePeople March 18, 2011 at 11:15 pm

Adding to the pick-and-choose problem is the fact that many fundamentalists, while claiming that the Bible is the literal word of God, inerrant, cannot be "interpreted", etc., don't seem to understand the Commandment "Thou shalt not kill". The Commandment does not have any qualifications or exceptions…you know, "unless it's for a good cause" or something. It's an absolute prohibition. So, when they say it's OK to kill doctors who perform abortions, they're clearly putting an interpretation onto that inconvenient little Commandment in their Bible.

Lesterfaye March 19, 2011 at 12:04 am

Jesus also made it pretty clean he wasn't too keen on stoning people for sexual immorality either. Remember the crowd that was ready the adulterous woman?

People LOVE to play this game with scripture, oh, it really says this, oh it really says that. Well, the thing is, it really says JACK SHIT out of context. I can make it look like the Bible says I can do just about anything I please, no matter how horrible or blatantly immoral it is. In this case, it was a guy murdering an old man.

I don't believe homosexuality to be a sin, btw. Being a bigot? That's another story. Anybody can be one, btw, you don't have to be straight, white, or Christian to qualify. Just saying.

nathan March 19, 2011 at 2:14 am

who says that jesus or god is the boss of all things right and wrong ANWAY. we live in a world where religion is obsolete, it once served a valuable purpose in peoples lives to keep the peace and high moral standards, but now it just can't keep up with the way the world has evolved since that book was written, it's time to throw it out and create a universal human code, that takes all walks of life into consideration

Susan Weber March 19, 2011 at 4:05 am

Thank you for your comment. That is absolutely true. Most non studied Christians should know the difference between "an eye for an eye" in the old testament and "turning the other cheek" in the new. Direct "contradictions" if not explained in the new testament throught he presence of Jesus
. How illiterate and uneducated–brainwashed are these people???????

hers3lf March 19, 2011 at 3:08 pm

The thing is, though, the Bible is totally full of conflicting statements, including Jesus contradicting himself. Jesus does say both that he did not come to end the law (of Moses) but to fulfull it, and then goes on to contradict that in the passage you refer to. He also says he brings peace, and that he doesn't, but brings a sword. I'm not very familiar with the books of the Acts of the Apostles, but I believe they mostly say that yes, Jesus brought a new covenant.

In my experience, that verse about the sword is one of the few directly attributed to Jesus that the evangelical types like to pay attention to. They're mostly into OT-style vengence, the words of Paul, and Revelations.

X Jeremy Jarratt March 19, 2011 at 12:07 pm

If the NT obsoletes the OT, then why do they still come packaged in one volume? I'm sure they exist, but i've never personally seen anyone who had a copy of just the NT by itself.

Robin June Nakkula March 19, 2011 at 7:02 pm

When the Gideons go to college campuses to pass out the little books the size of a pack of playing cards, the books only contain the New Testament and the 2 books of the Psalms and the Proverbs, and nothing else from the Old Testament. It makes for something a lot lighter and easier to carry around all the time in the bottom of your backpack or totebag.

These NTs are available in bookstores and religious bookstores, but you have to know what you're looking for, and look sharp to see them on the shelves.

A human being March 18, 2011 at 9:29 pm

Take your "book" and shove it.

Do whatever you want in your church or home – but keep your superstitions to yourself.

A lot of people don't want to hear about what you think parts of your "book" say, or mean, or signify or how they are to understand your "book" or your "beliefs."

This is not "anti-religious bigotry." It is rational self-defense against people who claim to be "religious," but suffer serious mental imbalance. And I'm not taking about the accused man in the story.

KgLPS March 19, 2011 at 1:50 am

Check out Romans 1:26-27. That part of the New Testament still seems pretty anti-homosexuality to me. Paul makes it pretty clear that stoning homosexuals to death is still cool by the time the New Testament rolls around.

And yes, the Torah is the primary holy scripture for the Jews, but you'll notice that it also contains the Ten Commandments, which are the big ten rules for modern-day Christians as well. Simply saying "It's in the Old Testament" doesn't negate the fact that it's still in the Bible, right in the middle of the part where the writers were stating what is and is not considered sinful.

alice March 19, 2011 at 2:15 am

The key word here is Paul made it clear. Paul was trying 2 get a church started.To some degree Paul felt the pressure of the Roman Catholic influence. It is a know fact that the Roman Catholic played a key role in what went into the bible,If u notice their is no text of Jesus saying that gays are to be stoned to death. Jesus word was sacred and even the Roman Catholic dare not change the his holy words. So if Jesus didnt mention this in his sermon on the mount, Im not stoning anybody…

Robin June Nakkula March 19, 2011 at 7:08 pm

Um, Alice, the Roman Catholics hadn't even been invented when Paul was alive. Peter was the first "pope," but Rome was trying to first govern Christians, then later was feeding Christians to lions as an arena spectacle, long before their emperor converted and caused part of Rome to become (one of several) capitals of Christianity throughout the known world. By the time that happened, Paul had been dead for several centuries.

Blaine March 19, 2011 at 4:38 pm

I'm not a Christian, but figured I should correct one thing: Paul's (authentic) letters were written before the NT Gospels (Mark was the first and it's generally thought to be written circa 70 CE, about 15-20 years after the authentic Pauline Epistles. This of course doesn't take into the supposed "Q" source, but quite frankly evidence that such a thing existed is quite slim).

Joe Blowder March 18, 2011 at 6:31 pm

You're an idiot for using this for either pro-gay or anti-Christian. This killer wanted this guy dead to get his estate. People like YOU hijack civil rights for your own sick agenda.

nax March 18, 2011 at 11:28 pm

yeah, that's a sure fire way to get his estate.. CONFESS to his murder. duh. any crime such as this, not just against gays, but females, and kids getting molested or bullied… pushing this stuff under the carpet REALLY helps right? I say expose it all. why hide it? to not expose it, or speak on it, is a crime in itself.

Your silence gives consent. – Plato

Seth Bailey March 18, 2011 at 11:32 pm

LOL. You're literally a white nationalist. Everyone check out Joe Blowder's facebook page (linked via his name). One of the very few pages he saw fit to "Like" was American Third Position. What is American Third Position?

Let's let their page define their movement: "The American Third Position (A3P) is both a political party and activist organization dedicated to the interests vital to the preservation and continuity of ethnic European communities within the United States of America."

Hey Joe Blowder, you're a neo-fascist racist piece of trash. Maybe people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw "sick agenda" remarks around.

A human being March 18, 2011 at 11:43 pm

Tell us, Joe Blow, when was staying alive not a civil right?

@TweetThis24u March 18, 2011 at 6:35 pm

there are three abominations against homosexuality in the bible and over 3000 against heterosexuals, maybe we should stone you every time you lust over a woman!

Michele March 19, 2011 at 12:11 pm

I like that. Never thought about it that way….

Sylver March 19, 2011 at 1:34 pm

Jesus says to "love the sinner, but hate the sin." Does this mean that if they are hating against anyone, we can stone them for going against what Jesus taught? NO!!!!!!!!!!! Why? Because in the 10 Commandments it says "Thou Shalt Not Kill." Hold on!!!!! The bible is supposed to be the words of God as translated by man, but the 10 Commandments were given to Moses by God. If the Bible says to stone anyone to death, doesn't this STRICTLY go against the 10 Commandments which was also given by God?

hers3lf March 19, 2011 at 3:14 pm

For that matter, if homosexuality was so horrible and evil in the eyes of God, why didn't God himself issue a commandment against it? I'd love to see these fundies try to answer that one.

Coxhere April 29, 2011 at 12:52 pm

Please show us where in the Wholly Buybull Jesus said, "Love the sinner, but hate the sin?" This statement was recently promulgated by evilgelical fundamentalisticals in reaction to non-evilgelicals telling the evilgelicals that they are evil (for hating Gays and other minorities). Also, Moses did NOT "get" the 10 Commandments from Jehovah. Hammurabi's Code contained what the Jews claimed were given to Moses by Jehovah. Use this link, http://www.blah3.com/article.php?story=2006071220… to see The Ten Commandments vs. Hammurabi's Code… It's very interesting. Hammurabi's Code was written hundreds of years before the 10 Commandments, and "Moses" (who wasn't Moses at all) plagiarized The Code of Hammurabi, a Mesopotamian. Old Testament writers (who claimed they were Moses) fancied-up the Moses story so that Moses was bringing the 10 Commandments from Mount Sinai which had been shrouded in a mysterious smoke cloud. Dishonest nonsense, of course.

Tracy Fitzgerald March 18, 2011 at 8:17 pm

The Bible also says to love neighbor and enemy. I suppose you'll blame all the love in the world on the Bible as well? Are you not aware of the millions of Christians across the country that are "doing something about it?" And you "know the translation is wrong" but go ahead and base your over-the-top criticism on one individual's dubious reading of a wrongly translated text as a justification for the murder of someone he had allegedly befriended? "Any questions?" Really? I usually find this site enlightening and helpful in my own arguments with and actions against the bigots of the world. Not today.

@donotcurseatme March 18, 2011 at 9:07 pm

It's really sad and pathetic how many people cling so desperately to their precious little book of fairytales. That's why this country is failing on all counts.

Robin Davenport March 18, 2011 at 9:34 pm

First off if any of these people knew any thing about the bible they would know that death in the bible means that you won't be going to heaven, and that life is living in the Lords Kingdom, it doesn't mean to litterally go out and murder someone because of there ethnics, race or sexual prefrence, that is for God to decide who lives and who dies. Those whom die go to hell when their bodies die because they do not beleive the words to be the truth in the bible. Those who live, live even though their bodies are dead and buried, their souls go on to heaven to live in the Lords Kingdom forever.

Kevin Cline March 18, 2011 at 9:44 pm

this is an example of one wing nut easily influenced by the rabid christian right…but there is also a christian left which is doing its darndest to show that there is another interpretation to how christians are supposed to think and act towards our fellow man….think of the christian left as the new testment christians and the christian right as stuck in the old testment christians….by the way the old testement was written before jesus arrived on scene and the christian right seems to hold up the bible will a part of it as their second god….btw im an out gay progressive christian. my partner is entering LPTS for seminary. both of us are presbyterians which has went through many many slow changes over the years…"religon" is mans versions of events and so many times we get it so wrong….

this all being said this article did seem to have the feeling of attack the whole faith for the craziness and hate of one….true the christian right makes up millions of bigoted and ignorant people who refuse to examine their own faiths and ideals but there is an equal and growing amount of liberal/progressive christians who are finding our voices to drown out the screams of our counterparts……

please dont stone all of us in return……please be objective…..

Asian Conservative March 18, 2011 at 10:36 pm

The author of this blog should really research the topic before making assumptions and jumping to conclusions. First off, if you look at the scripture reading from the historical context of events (namely, the Exodus from Egypt) all these "rules" and "laws" were made to govern the population as they made camp, set up their communities and before they began their venture for the "promised land." These governing laws were the attempt to keep the people "pure" and prevent the Israelites from straying back into sin like during the instance of them creating an idol to worship or performing acts of debauchery. This was a critical time within their history because they had to insure the health of their community since they were in the desert during their days of wandering and needed a structured society to ensure the health and well being of the population.

If you bother reading the bible before making accusations (which most people don't), there are plenty of examples of brutality within the old testament, many epic battles and populations slaughtered when the Israelites actually began their campaign for Israel. Likewise, there is also speculation that one of the greatest kings after King David "spoke" to animals (King Salomon and the mythical Salomon's Ring). What many critics fail to realize is the views of Christianity shift from the Old Testament to the New Testament.

Jesus himself walked with and spoke with the "unclean" as a testimony that we must co-exist while bearing witness to those who live in sin. The Son of God dined with the wicked and the undesirables, he acknowledged the prostitutes and he blessed the fallen; something many mainstream Christians would never think of doing. That is where the word Christian gains its meaning; being Christ-like.

If you intend on cherry-picking passages out of the Bible in order to discredit an entire belief, I suggest you re-evaluate your position before doing so. Any person can take a passage from a book and blow it out of context, however the smart person looks at the passage and then reads it in context with the rest of the chapter, scripture and book before making a judgment. This misguided person clearly did what you're doing, the only difference is he took a life while the author here is attempting to discredit the religion itself. You're "guilty by association" argument is fallacious at best. Even the Bible talks about personal accountability to oneself. If you want to blame someone, try blaming the parents who brought up this disturbed person. Blame the lack of structure, civility, accountability and moral guidance that they should have taught him. But then again, playing the blaming game is easy nowadays isn't it? Now being accountable for one's actions; that's the hard part.

Betsy Mazzone March 18, 2011 at 10:42 pm

That scripture has nothing to do with Homosexuality. It is refering to Idol worship.The Hebrews had lived in Egypt for 400 years and learned how they worshipped. Egypt had many gods and a complicated style of worship, which included going to the pagan temple and having sex as a worship act. Men with men, women with women and men with women, there was a whole cult. Throw in a child or two and animals. There is even sacrificing of children and people.

When the Hebrews left Egypt God wanted them to worship only I AM. No sex, no human sacrifice, and only trusting in I AM to be God. So Leviticus, if you really read it, is instructions on how to worship I AM.

MattAlgren March 18, 2011 at 11:27 pm

Absolutely.

Throw in their misunderstanding of biology (semen was all that was necessary for a baby; the woman's womb was just an incubator), and ejaculating outside a womb (be it with a man or on the ground) becomes the killing of a child. Do that during male/male sex as an act of other-god worship and it becomes child sacrifice to another god.

So this was considered not just breaking one commandment (no murdering), but two (no murdering, no other gods).

In the context of their culture and their limited/erroneous understanding of science, the punishment is perfectly in line with the "crime."

But now we know that sperm alone does not equal a baby, so ejaculating outside the womb is obviously not murder. Killing a baby is still wrong, and (in a Jewish or Christian context) sacrifices to other gods are still wrong, but two men having sex is neither of those things. With new understanding, the "crime" is no longer there.

Myke March 20, 2011 at 8:22 am

That's good to know, Betsy and Matt – so when is the corrected version of the bible coming out – the one that says "Don't worship in the style of the ancient Egyptians, and by the way it's all right for men to have sex with each other" and "Adjust your application of the laws according to the new knowledge discovered by science" and "Failure to allow your sperm the chance to fuse with an egg is the same as child murder" and "Interpret these rules according to your own understanding"? I can't wait to read a copy, especially the part where you explain that the old bible is a record of past misunderstandings of the words of god. Seriously , I'm astounded at the skill you display in pseudological gymnastics.

Seth Bailey March 18, 2011 at 11:35 pm

There are actually people in this day and age that think a group of texts written by dozens of authors, translated dozens of times, altered for political and religious gain over the centuries and originally intended for a desert-dwelling tribe that existed before the Common Era is the inexorable word of a magical sky wizard that created the entire universe yet gets his jollies by following everyone around and watching them poop and have sex.

That is all that really needs to be said.

John March 19, 2011 at 12:01 am

Context.. History lessons. Interpretations. Explanations. Accusations. It's all talk.

Tortured religious justifications. New Testament abrogations. But the Bible also says….this and that and other thing.

Anyone can have an opinion on what the Bible really meant when it said….but in the end…..

It means what you want it to mean!

Everything else is just commentary. Monday Morning Quarterbacks:

A man is dead. We shrug. We Point up the whys and wherefores..

We figure out why it has nothing to do with our beliefs then on to the next controversy.

Rabbi Hillet said before the Christ was born: "What is hateful to thyself do not do to another. That is the whole Law, the rest is Commentary.”

It means what you want it to mean!

Shelli March 19, 2011 at 1:27 am

Even though the bible does advocate for violence against gays, I think this man might be more suited to the Muslim religion, where they actually DO still stone people to death for the "sin" of being gay. At least there he'd fit right in. Good gawd, when are people going to stop taking their works of fiction (holy texts) so damn seriously?!

Karger 2012 March 19, 2011 at 8:09 am

Terrorists and fundamentalists operate out of the same playbook. They need to be fought at the same intensity using the same tactics.

alleee March 19, 2011 at 10:18 am

Yeah the bible says to put gays to death. So why follow Christianity? If you discount the Old Testament, please be ready to reject all of it, including creation. And don't tell me the New Testament is a cream puff when Jesus tells us we're going to rot and burn in hell with fire and intestinal parasites. The New testament is as damnable as the old.

Shame on liberal Christians for being culpable in this: you endorse the scripture by calling yourselves Christian. Shame on gays for clouding their eyes to the evident violence and hatred towards women, children and sex. Get out of the religion, and stop just interpreting the way you want. We all have eyes–even non-Christians can read–we just don't have a reason to want what is said to be wonderful. Read the thing. As I always say,

"Have you READ that book?"

Myke March 20, 2011 at 9:12 am

Right! If you reserve your right to interpret the meaning of the bible your way, admit that anyone has the right to interpret it any way they like, AND that this makes it useless as a guide to behaviour – in which case, you don't need to involve the bible at all, just do whatever you think is right and trust that god's on your side. I can, if I wish, cherry-pick the bible for suitable quotes and interpret those quotes to support everything I think is true, including that there is no god. I can just as easily choose quotes to say that everything I think is wrong. You can't do this with the laws of nature, but you can use them as a useful guide to behaviour.

@PertinaciousC March 19, 2011 at 11:45 am

The Old Testament is a list of laws, Jesus says he is here to overturn the law. His rule is to love your neighbor as yourself. The old Testament also says to stone women who have sex before marriage and women who are having an affair, but in the New Testament a woman in that exact position is brought to him for stoning, and he says "you who are without sin, throw the first stone."
Who you love and where you want to stick it is none of anyone's business but you and the person you're with. If God wants to change you, He will. Christians will not "fix gays" with stonings and seminars and those stupid pamphlets. Its up to God, so His children need to shut up.
And to the fundamentalists? I would rather hang out at my local gay club then the church I attend. I find less hypocrites among your so-called "sinners."

Lu McNeal March 19, 2011 at 2:37 pm

No he didn't…Did you actually read that, or did your pastor just say that to you on Sunday? Matthew 5:17:

17Do not think that I have come to do away with or [a]undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.

Myke March 20, 2011 at 8:29 am

If Jesus was around today he'd probably prefer to hang out at the gay club with you, for the same reasons as you

Roger March 19, 2011 at 3:25 pm

While you guys are busy stoning or un-stoning gays… Keep in mind, God created EVERYONE… In the meantime, I'm going to sacrifice a goat and beat my slaves.

chris March 19, 2011 at 4:10 pm

And this is why we have concealed handguns. Guns don't always go with bibles.

0man March 19, 2011 at 8:34 pm

The Old Testament is Judaism not Christianity. Jesus prevented to woman caught in adultery from being stoned..

Will March 20, 2011 at 2:00 am

You do know the story of the woman taken in adultery was added later to the Book of John, right? It's not there in the oldest of the manuscripts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman_taken_in_adult

Myke March 20, 2011 at 7:44 am

How can you tell that's how they are being used? If the bible s the word of god, why isn't it a great deal simpler, less ambiguous and free of the sort of logical contradictions that would shame a first-year philosophy student? If it is supposed to be a guide to behaviour, why is it so inconsistent?

religionsr4retards March 23, 2011 at 3:25 pm

your really stupid ok.. jesus.. our lord and saviour.. chose only one people to give his message to.. he said.. fuck the eskimos, chinese, japenese, samoens, north american plains natives, south american natives, australians, indians.. basically.. every other peoples than a buncha dirty, ignorant, desert dwelling camel herders whose basic understanding of physics, philosophy, geology, astrophysics, _______ (fill in the blank with basically anything), etc, was non existent.. so with that disrespect to all other human beings that he/his father created in mind.. he came down and gave them his story.. so that.. two generations later.. someone would begin to write the first description of his adventures in suicide?..

so basically.. by giving his word to only one people.. he ensured that the words would be misinterpreted and be impossible to translate directly.. remember after all.. he/his father created all languages..

so to answer your question.. as with anything in this life.. the bible is inconsistent because god wanted it that way..

David Badash March 20, 2011 at 3:17 pm

First, thanks to the thousands of folks who have read, shared, and commented on this story. I truly appreciate it.

Second, I think the religious, biblical, and social issues conversation has been great, and I applaud folks for treating it intelligently and civilly.

I just want to add one thing: please, as someone who has lost a dear and close relative to murder, close your eyes for a moment and think of the sheer terror this 70 year old man must have gone thru during his last minutes of life. Add to it the fact that his attacker was the one person in the world most dear to him.

I, for one, cannot even come close to imagining the fear, terror, and sadness he must have felt, as he was beaten to death with rocks in a sock pounding into his scull.

If there is a God, God help us.

But I think it's up to us to save ourselves, from man's own ignorance.

JennyH March 20, 2011 at 3:38 pm

Though I am sickened by the acts of some Christians, not all Christians are stuck in the old testament. To say so is stereotyping. It's like saying every gay man wears eyeliner or every lesbian has short hair. Neither are true for the entire population. I am a Christian who works towards gays' civil rights. I do not carry stones, that is the old testament. I give love freely because that is what my Lord Jesus Christ did. Please do not be so ignorant as to stereotype people. You become no better than the ass hats that are stuck in the old testament.

brian March 20, 2011 at 4:08 pm

thats from the old testement jesus came to defend and love us all he loves just as much as he does straight people and no where in the bible will you find jesus saying ""put gay people to death""!!! so dont go knocking all christians untill you know all your facts jesus loves all of us ALL of us no matter what!

Tyler March 21, 2011 at 1:50 am

Well why don't these bible thumping FOOLS break out leviticus where u can't wear clothes of different texture or u shall surely b stoned !!! Pretty sure all these bible thumpers r wearing a blend of cotton/polyester and so on……SO CMON THUMPERS IF U WANT TO BE LITERAL LET'S GET LITERAL AND START STORING EVERYONE CUZ EVERYONE ACCORDING TO LEVITICUS NOW DAYS SHOULD B STONED LET'S START THE STONING PEOPLE. CMON THIS IS ABOUT THE BIBLE NOT JUST GAYS RIGHT??????? THERE IS MANY OTHER REASONS IN THAT BOOK FOR STONING THAT ALL DOES ON A DAILY BASIS SO A LOT OF WORK TO DO STONERS…CMONNNN….GET TO IT !!!!!!! BUNCH OF IDIOTS IN THIS WORLD TODAY …RATHER SICKENING !!!!!!!

Stuff Queer People Need To Know March 21, 2011 at 10:03 am

I am continually amazed at the lengths to which people go to justify there actions with religion. Interpreting the stoning passage this way is a horrific stretch, probably even to the most radical of Christians.

burtonbagbygrose March 21, 2011 at 1:42 pm

Speaking of Leviticus, let’s look at chapter 18, and let's not forget to read the WHOLE chapter and the WHOLE book in order to place these verses in context. Scripture is NOT a weapon. Scripture contains the holy stories of the holy people of God and through these stories God speaks to God's people.

Leviticus is a book that was written as the Hebrew people were settling in the land of Canaan and reflects their understanding of how God was calling them to organize their communal life. It is mainly a collection of rules and regulations (TORAH, meaning teaching) with a few stories interspersed.

There are a total of 613 or 614 commandments or teachings in the First or Old Testament, many of which are found in Leviticus. Some of the most interesting are commandments against eating shrimp (11.9-12), blended fabrics (19.19), eating blood [no more rare meat] (7.26), and no sex with a woman who is having her period (18.19).

Interestingly enough, the word that's translated as abomination simply means "ritually unclean." Basically, it means you need to take a bath. Now, the first few verses of Chapter 18 remind us that God has called God's people to live differently from those around them.

"The Lord spoke to Moses, saying: Speak to the people of Israel and say to them: I am the Lord your God. You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you lived, and you shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan, to which I am bringing you. You shall not follow their statutes. My ordinances you shall observe and my statutes you shall keep, following them: I am the Lord your God. You shall keep my statutes and my ordinances; by doing so one shall live: I am the Lord."

Then follow a good number of rules and regulations: don't have sex with family members, don't have sex with a woman who's having her period (I wonder how many heterosexual men are guilty of that one?), you shall not offer your children as sacrifices to idols, etc. Finally, we get to verse 22,

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Well, again, we have to look for context. In what sense did the community know of one male having sex with another? The only sense was that of anal rape. This was a culture that did not understand the idea of romantic love as we understand it.

We're the children of the Greeks and Romans with our understanding of love as the funny little feeling our stomachs. In the Ancient Near East, sex and marriage were for procreation (children) and procreation alone (it's why the Roman Catholic church continues to oppose the use of any and all forms of contraception).

The passage, then, is a demand that the people of Israel NOT use sex as a means of achieving power or dehumanizing another person. Therefore, it has NOTHING to do with a loving, committed relationship between two people of the same gender.

Guest March 21, 2011 at 6:47 pm

The Bible, as far as we now, represented the best thinking of its time. But by any modern standard, areas are just wrong. Do we start lining up and killing people who work on Sundays? Or de we just want to keep picking out the best areas that suit our personal beliefs and morals, and say its okay becaus the bible says so?

We also are trained to believe that "freedom" just means doing what we want. No morals, standards, or accountability. which is how grade school children come to believe things like Columbine are okay. They wanted to, doesn't that make it all right?

Ted March 22, 2011 at 7:58 pm

Murder is murder and it is serious crime in America and the person doing the crime will be punished by the legal system. Gay or straight murder is a crime. Too bad gays do not have full equality yet in the justice system, too many time things like this are not made a hate crime. Gays need to go out and protest at court houses and police department to being attention to injustice, if and when it happens to them if they want to change things around.

Robinhood March 23, 2011 at 1:22 am

This is how CHRISTIANS ( the follower of Jesus Christ ) should act (to be more like Jesus) in our daily lives :

1. To the woman that was caught in adultery n brought to Jesus for stoning :

1.1 she was DEFENDED by Jesus, left alone by Jesus (forgiven, loved by him beyond her sin n more) Jesus said : let him who have NO SIN, cast the first stone ("He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone … John 8:7)

1.2 but she's not off the hook either, because Jesus said to her :
where are those, who accused you ( the crowd that were there to stone her, has left one by one, ashamed of themselves, realizing the fact that NO ONE is qualified to be SINLESS. We all have sinned n come short to the glory of God, therefore CAN NOT " cast a stone " to ANYBODY.
NOBODY CAN CONDEMN US, EXCEPT GOD, THE HOLY ONE, that's why we have to read the Bible TO KNOW His Plan for our lives, n not being CONDEMNED BY HIM, Jeremiah 29 :11, but be BLESSED in ALL our ways, Psalm 119 :1-24.

Robinhood March 23, 2011 at 1:23 am

1.3 Furthermore Jesus said : . . . neither do I condemn you . . . (WE RECEIVE PARDON, so that we can COME TO REPENTANT)
1.4 . . . Go now, n SIN NO MORE ! (WE HAVE TO STOP LIVING THE SINFUL LIVESTYLE)

The conclusion in this case of the 70 yrs old man, JESUS WILL DEFINITELY NOT STONE HIM TO DEATH because of his lifestyle, but Jesus also WILL RECOMMEND him to LEAVE that lifestyle n SIN NO MORE !

jjael April 1, 2011 at 11:14 pm

I'm glad to know lesbian sex is still okay. Actually, I think we're excluded because women are supposed to be asexual.

Hugh Mann April 12, 2011 at 5:45 pm

Oh dear Lord, If you really are there and servicing open accounts…. You really need to come down here in your powder-blue Prius and slap the snot out of some of your fan clubs.

"Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion–several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven….The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems in questionable taste." – Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain)

bill gates April 12, 2011 at 11:51 pm

gather all 70 year old men and women and
drop an atomic bomb on them no more
beating around the bush

truth April 21, 2011 at 5:30 pm

The bible is stupid and fake.

Kyuzo Tatsuya April 26, 2011 at 9:29 am

Take your "book" and shove it.

Do whatever you want in your church or home – but keep your superstitions to yourself.

A lot of people don't want to hear about what you think parts of your "book" say, or mean, or signify or how they are to understand your "book" or your "beliefs."

bsanchez May 3, 2011 at 8:42 pm

ok then a lot of people dont want to hear about what you think about the bible or about the comment you made, so keep it to yourself?.. and take your "opinions" and shove it?

Victor Quinteros November 27, 2012 at 12:49 am

Thanks Jesus came to give us a new command
"To love each other like he did"
So the old bible is not a big deal any longer.
Is the past.

nax March 18, 2011 at 11:32 pm

great anology Darren.. seriously

X Jeremy Jarratt March 19, 2011 at 12:02 pm

100% THAT^

Michele March 19, 2011 at 12:06 pm

While it is true that anyone can qualify as a bigot, bigotry on the part of an opressed minority lacks the capacity to impinge on the rights (and quality of life) of the majority. Example: Gays will never get the chance to vote away your right to form a family of your own choosing.

religionsr4retards March 23, 2011 at 3:15 pm

Amen!

Religious people are weak and seek answers no matter how obviously idiotic it is.. a talking snake? a man living in a fish for 3 days? god sending (himself.. his son.. uhm.. huh?).. lets go with himself.. god sending himself on a suicide mission? for our souls? the devil disobeying? disobeying god? who created the devil to be this way? or.. are you saying that god was not aware that Satan would disobey him? if thats true.. then god is not who you claim he/she/it/huh? is..

Coxhere April 29, 2011 at 12:20 pm

But this is merely another contradiction: In the last book in the Wholly Buybull, it says that anyone who takes away even one word will have heaven taken away from her/him. It says that anyone who adds even one word that person will have added unto his damnation in hell. The Gideons, taking away almost the entire OT will have heaven taken from them. By the way, would anyone want to go a "heaven" with the likes of people such as Miss Tonya Perkins, Miss Pattie Robertson, and all of the rest of these kinds of excuses for people? What would such a "heaven" be? Compared to that kind of "heaven," hell sounds like the correct choice.

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